Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:33:42 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Isca
Subject: Wills rings
Dear All
I'm after some advice!!
I've just bought a newly rebuilt 998 with wills ringed sport head. The engine has never been run. What i want to do is change the head to a chessman big valve one which i am busting to get on an engine. The chessman head has already had the cut outs for wills rings.
My question is............
Can the wills rings be re-used? Although the sport head has been fitted, the engine has not been run and so can i get away with just a new outer gasket?
Any ideas/thoughts would be most welcome.
Waiting in anticipation........
Martin Bristow
Exeter, Devon, UK
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:57:18 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Paul Waites
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Hi,
Here in York Roger Gill a serious autograsser regularly reuses rings by turning them over. Mind you he is rebuilding engines regularly so don't know if it is a good long term idea, personally I reckon that it would be false ecconomy.
Paul.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:25:00 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Mark Norman
Subject: Re: Wills rings
I've just been through this after trying to save some money - I'm now putting a new set of wills rings in. The answer is no, they cannot be re-used! They'll leak. Malcolm Cross (York area man) tells me though that it is possible to turn them over & re use them once, but the risk is yours!
Mark.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:10:11 +0100 (WET DST)
From: CKirkw00d@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Martin,
I have a few cars with wills rings and in my experience you can use them again if you can get them out without any damage. In your case if the car hasn't been started then there should be less of a problem. My advice is to turn the rings (upper face at present goes in to the block) when you use them for the second time.
As I said they can be used again and you have nothing to lose by trying this. I must say that doing this failed me only once in the past. You don't say if you have used these before but here are the details:
Check block for flatness. Maximum error .004" down on the liners (no local damage to Wills ring seating area).
Cylinder head bolt bosses may be filed very carefully if found to be high.
Make sure Ring grooves are clean and fit Rings using a flat solid piece of wood and tap gently with a hammer.
Use jointing compound both sides of the gasket (Hermetite orange).
N.B. Remember the oilway 'o' ring.
Torque to 20 to 25 then 36 to 40.
Slacken off and retorque to 36 then 40.
Always run with coolant inhibitor or antifreeze.
And thats it, happy torquing to you. Colin K.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:00:56 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Well Yes and No !
If you take off the same head and re-fit it then maybe , i have done it on two occasions ( not the same wills rings )
I wouldn't fit the used rings in a different head ,
No don't turn them around , they take up a D shape and you will loose most of the clamping force ! ( As they heat up the gas inside expands )
At £60 a set it's certainly worth a try ...
You realise there are two sizes of wills rings for Imps ?
( diameter of the grooves i mean ie 3.125 inches and slightly smaller .. )
nick ...
PS , What do people seal their water gaskets with ?? Wellseal is not the answer although i have been using it for 25 years ...
do your's always eventually weep between the cylinders?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:08:28 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Mark Norman
Subject: Re: Wills rings
>PS , What do people seal their water gaskets with ??
The last time I used Loktite Flexible Gasket - red stuff in a syringe, about 15 pounds.
It is excellent - no leaks at all, and a good firm seal.
Mark.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:59:29 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Richard Candler
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Now, as I understand it, rings only go in one way up, since only one face is plated and there is a bevel. Is this true or not?
Rich
(Dave's sure this is why his engine has now gone - we cracked a ring reassembling his engine and so had to replace it. It was the first time either of us had done anything like this, and so we didn't have a clue about which way up the rings had to go.)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Edge
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Correct me if I am wrong but Wills Rings are a form of spacing ring between the head and the cylinder not the same as a piston ring, do you lengthen the stroke to take advantage of the extra cylinder space.
Rich is right in one respect, my engine is duff and doesn't idle because I have assembled it not realising that the rings were sided.
DOH
Is there any way of telling which way up to run piston rings?
Dave
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:48:29 +0100 (WET DST)
From: CKirkw00d@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
David,
we need to clear this up for you and a few others I think.
Firstly,
Wills rings are hollow rings filled with gas that take the place of a head gasket. There is one per cylinder and they fit into grooves machined into the head. There is nothing to do with any extra spacers or any other devices.
Standard straight forward, that's it. They expand with heat and form the seal.
They are not sided when new but uniformly round. So they can be fitted any way! Now for piston rings.
Piston rings are chromed and can be fitted either way when new. The second ring is a compression ring and has the word 'bottom' on its lower face, this is the wider of the two faces and must face down towards the crank.
The last ring is the oil control ring (slotted) and can be fitted either way when new.
Make sure when fitting new rings to check the ring gaps in the bore before fitting to the piston. The gap should be .008" to .013" for all models. File the rings to comply.
The last time I bought Wills rings from Andy Chesman (Aug 95) they were £44.65 all in. This included oil seal, outer gasket, post and packing and the dreaded VAT.
Howzat? Colin K.
P.S. This is a question not specifically aimed at you, but I take it that all of you Impers out there have at least got a Haynes manual and maybe even some of you might have read it?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:13:38 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
> Use jointing compound both sides of the gasket (Hermetite orange).
I have found this type of silicon sealant causes the paper water gasket to slip out , especially at the rear of the block where you can't see it !
Silicon is slippery ..
it looks a mess too !
nick ...
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:14:02 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Gary Henderson
Subject: Re: Wills rings
Hi Mike
I've done it on desperately rotten Hunter thermo housings. (Ones on iron-head motors, well beyond gasketing!) Never gave subsequent trouble.
I think the Imp's got a thin gasket + sili - it's been several years since I last had to disturb it, so can't remember.
Cheers
GaryH
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:12:01 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
> its probably better than the thick gaskets because
> they are what cause the thermo covers to bow.
Yes Silicon RTV is not petrol resistant !!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:20:36 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Mark Norman
Subject: Re: Wills rings
>> Loktite Flexible Gasket
>>It is excellent - no leaks at all, and a good firm seal.
>Excellent .. and after a couple of years and 30000 miles ???
Yes, that's the real test isn't it.
The engine had done perhaps 1500 before I had to take it apart, so no long term info I'm afraid. What I can say about the stuff is that it's very easy to use, goes on evenly & tidily, sets within a predictable time, and perhaps best of all, it only sets where two surfaces join - any excess stays soft (the product is almost liquid) so it rinses out of oil & water ways without causing any blockages.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:12:20 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wills rings
well maybe that's an answer , as wellseal i no longer trust ...
I have found an alternative , it's a silicon type compound used for electronic Automatic gearboxes , but it's far too expensive to buy for just one use ...
Nick ...